Newman

Of all the authors that we have read, Newman is my favorite. I really liked the move he made by converting to Catholicism and resigning his position at Oxford. It makes him sort of a rebel in my eyes. One thing I noticed is that he is the first of the four authors to point out that the drive to acquire of knowledge is an inherent human trait. I think this is a very big observation. “Knowledge is, not merely a means to something beyond it, or the preliminary of certain arts into which it naturally resolves, but an end sufficient to rest in and pursue for its own sake.” (Newman, 1) I think this is the best quote to sum up Newman’s ideas. Just the endless pursuit of knowledge, not the application, is whats important. We may not use all the knowledge we get, but just having it and having the ability to get more is what makes us happy as humans.

Liberuseful Knowledge;)

Keely Boulton

ENGL 121

In his essay, Newman talks about  two different types of knowledge: liberal and useful.  He says that useful knowledge is the practical, everyday kind, whereas he says liberal is the knowledge that is gained for one’s own end.  Supposedly there is a distinction between the two, but I believe they go hand in hand with each other.  I think Newman intended for us to use our practical knowledge skills to attain the liberal knowledge we need for our careers.  It is hard to separate the two, because they invariably need to be put together to achieve the best education possible.  I think Newman would say that we need liberal education in order to perfect what our human nature cannot on its own. 

#1 Useful or Liberal?

John Henry Newman talks about two different types of knowledge in his lecture “Knowledge Its Own End”. These types of “knowledge” are useful knowledge and liberal knowledge. In useful knowledge, i indeed believe knowledge doesn’t have to have purpose or need in order to obtain it. Having basic knowledge is the way we live our lives today. They keep us out of trouble and make even the most basic decisions when it comes to friends, relationships, work, nutrition, etc. Even if the useful knoweldge had no real purpose, the basics are great to know in just becoming a normal person in the world today.

Enjoying Learning

Carley Buttelman

English 121

In Newman’s opinion, what role does enjoyment play in the motivation to acquire knowledge? In your opinion, is learning most enjoyable for its own sake or for its use value.

Learning is everywhere. If it’s in class or through a life experience, it’s everywhere. However, I honeslty believe that if one enjoys what they are learning that they will be more motivated to aquire that knowledge. For instane, classes that interest someone always seems to be their favortive and always goes by faster than a class that they might not enjoy as much. I feel that enjoyment plays a huge role in motivating someone to learn. In elementary school, learning had to be enjoyable thats why games and prizes are always involved. Motivation is a huge key in the role of learning. If it’s learning a certain topic that interests a person, than I feel that motivation to continue to learn will be there as well.

Maybe not useful, but long-lasting

The practical applications of knowledge are many.  They basicly deal with the skills you need to survive in everyday life–how to work and get along in society.  This practical application is both good and “useful”, but it ends as soon as it’s put to use.  I agree with Newman that knowledge doesn’t need to serve any “useful” social purpose to be worth aquiring.   Knowledge can be obtained from numerous sources and helps a person to become a self-thinking individual–one who seeks to think about and reflect back on all that life has to offer.  This type of knowledge may not have a physical or useful application, but it benefits the individual intellectually. The knowledge continues on with the individual and is there for them to use for the rest of thier life.  Even if knowledge isn’t directly applicable or “useful”, the individual still benefits from it-therefore it is worth aquiring.

Enjoying education

Newman Post

English 121

2/5/08

 

Newman’s opinion is that acquiring knowledge is all about enjoyment and that people should always want to learn new things. For me I try to enjoy education as much as possible but surely for its useful sake. Not the sake of just learning because it is required. When you learn just to learn I feel that knowledge is useless why enjoy something you will never be able to use. The time learning things you’ll never us was time wasted. In that time I could have learned things that would have better my chances of being successful.

The land of the free… and the educated.

Benjamin Burns

Araina Paliobagis

English 121

2/5/08      

 

John Henry Newman said “Such is the constitution of the human mind, that any kind of knowledge, if it be really such, is its own reward. (514)” I chose this quote because I strongly believe in its meaning. Knowledge itself is a gift and it is something to be cherished. We as students are paying seemingly ridiculous amounts of money to attend college here and some people think that it is too much. But if one was to think about it, is it really too much? Can one really put a price on knowledge and all of the benefits that come along with it? I believe that knowledge is something to fight for because along with knowledge comes freedom. Along with knowledge comes that ability to shape your life and live it the way that you choose. The land of the free… and the knowledgeable.

The difference between Knowledge and Virtue

Felix J Grobler

Ariana Paliobagis

English 121

6^th of February 2008

“Knowledge is one thing, virtue is another; good sense is not conscience, refinement is not humility, nor is largeness and justness of view faith (Newman, 518).” Newman continues to talk about how education and character are wholly unconnected. I liked this passage of his because it really seemed to make sense to me. Character has nothing to do with how educated you are. I know several persons who have only completed high school, but are some of the nicest and kindest persons I know. Newman believes in the benefits of a liberal education, but he realizes its limitations. Being virtuous and educated do not go hand in hand. Some of the greatest minds in history have used their gift for evil purposes. Knowledge may seem like virtue from a distance, but up close the difference is indistinguishable. People that are extremely knowledgeable sometimes carry a sense of pretending to be something more that they are not.

How is learning enjoyable?

 Samantha Kujala

02/5/08

ENGL 121

 2.  In Newman’s opinion, what role does enjoyment play in the motivation to acquire knowledge?  In your opinion, is learning most enjoyable for its own sake or for its use value?  Explain your answer.

            To me, Newman makes it sound like learning is something that is always enjoyable; otherwise nobody would try or ever want to learn anything new, at least not from books. I feel that learning can be enjoyable, but can also be extremely boring. Overall learning is probably most enjoyable for its use. What’s better than learning something new and then being able to put it to use? It sometimes is enjoyable for its own sake, like when I learn an interesting fact I didn’t know before. But I don’t think Newman really states how there is a lot of things we learn that are not enjoyable, because they are of no interest to us and we can’t put this knowledge to use.

Enjoyment

2.  In Newman’s opinion, what role does enjoyment play in the motivation to acquire knowledge?  In your opinion, is learning most enjoyable for its own sake or for its use value?

Enjoyment plays a large role because Newman states that knowledge in itself should be reason enough to acquire it.  Thus, if that knowledge has some extent of enjoyment to it, then one would want to pursue it even more.  From my point of view, the type of knowledge that Newman advocates we pursue is that of book smarts.  I do not think that there is as much an application for book smarts as there are for street smarts, unless you are a philosopher or such.  With that stated, I do enjoy learning for its own sake, because it is cool and fun to know lots of information.  I think that learning for its own sake much outweighs its use value.  Over the years, I have learned tons of things, including many cool facts.  However, I will not typically use any of that knowledge that came from book smarts, unless I need to recall a specific fact.  Yet, I greatly enjoy having all that information bouncing around in my head, and that is why I agree with Newman, on the fact that enjoyment plays a large role in the motivation to acquire knowledge.

Newman Post

Kirsten JensenEnglish 121February 6, 2008Newman Newman believes in “liberal knowledge” and “useful knowledge”. Liberal knowledge is that that is pursued for its own sake, while useful knowledge is that that has a practical application. Useful knowledge is what trains us for careers and liberal knowledge’s only purpose if for seeking further knowledge for one’s own improvement. I some what agree with the fact that we are trained to do certain tasks to carryout out jobs in society and earn a living for a family. While we also learn certain activities that are solely for our enjoyment, a person’s career should also reflect personal enjoyment to fully be successful. However I think that the two should be combined and the career you set out to accomplish should be one that you are truly passionate about. While some parts of a job are tedious, most of a person’s lifetime career should involve proceedings that they enjoy or else they should pursue another career. I am pursuing the medical field to become a pediatrician, and can truly say that I am interested and fully invested into the career. I will find a job that gives me enjoyment everyday I go to work, because when a person is truly passionate about what they are doing the job gets done better. When one truly loves what they are doing knowledge will never stop prospering and the overall commitment to society and ones self will be satisfied.

Newman! (with a clenched fist and gritted teeth a la ‘Seinfeld’

 Chris Kurz

To say that what Newman wrote went over my head would be an understatement. Most of his sentences seemed to roll on and on with multiple ideas that needed to be separated. Nevertheless, I will now attempt to make some sense of Newman’s jibberish.
It seems that Newman was a life-long student that was trying to justify why he didn’t have a job. He staunchly stood up for the good that comes with knowledge, but his attempts at explaining the different methods of learning left me confused and disoriented. He says knowledge is, “in its nature so really and undeniably good” (514). From that point Newman than goes on to talk about how only certain types are deemed “useful” in his opinion.
It is easy to see that Newman would have pursued a liberal arts degree if he were in the modern day university setting. Maybe it is the use of the term “useful” that threw me off in this reading. Newman termed, “knowledge that has a practical application” (513) as useful. He also stated that “liberal knowledge”, knowledge that you pursue only for the sake of knowledge, as invaluable. The semantics of terming one class of knowledge as useful and the other branch as liberal makes me feel as if I am missing something.
Newman’s writings probably require much time and effort to completely comprehend. That means that they are not for everyone. I would include myself in that group right now, but reserve the right to change my mind after discussion and further exploration. His writing is in itself what he would classify “liberal knowledge”.

Newman

1. What are some of the practical applications of different kinds of knowledge? Is Newman correct in saying that knowledge need not serve any “useful” social purpose to be worth acquiring? Why or why not?

When Newman spoke of knowledge being positive even if it had no “useful” social purpose he was saying that knowledge, even if it is not recognized as being useful now, has a purpose. It may be the key link between two ideas that have not been formulated yet. A liberal education or knowledge that has no direct use is useful but only when it is attached to a strong base of useful knowledge and common sense, as well as a strong virtuous background. The evolution of humanity to the point its at, our ability to provide the basic needs, shows our species as moving towards the use of a liberal education.

Making sense of it all!

4.  Compare Douglass’s experience of education himself with Newman’s understanding of “liberal education.”  How well does Douglass’s learning correspond to the kind of education that Newman advocates?  How “useful” to Douglass are the things he learns?           

This text was very hard for me to understand. However, I am going to attempt to grasp what Newman said and believed, and maybe I am completely wrong. I feel that Newman is trying to say that education should be pursued for individual fulfillment. He is saying that the acquisition of knowledge can exists only for the happiness of the person being educated, and that would be enough. I also feel that he feels that basic knowledge or the non liberal knowledge is also important; it is important for people to live in society and carry out jobs, and manage their lives. I feel that Newman’s and Douglass’s view on education differ and are similar at the same time. To me, Newman supports traditional education but advocates “liberal education” more; on the other hand, Douglass feels that both are equally important. To Newman, Douglass’s knowledge is useful to Douglass but not to society and not to human kind. However, to Douglass, the things he learns saves his life and are very useful to him. Both are equally important to Douglass because he faced special circumstances, had he not been in the position he was in maybe he would express his support of “liberal education” as much as Newman does.

it is not affiliated

             John Henery Newman,  was a part of the eighteenth century.  A former Anglican minister who converted to Catholicism,  who had some very interesting ideas about liberal educations and the role of the university in general.  Ideas that to this days are still being adapted into the liberal university course study.

          I had to read this text multiple times, just to try and grasp what exactly Newman was trying to say.  to say the least i am still left wondering about a few things.  Newman was a strong advocate of obtaining a liberal education.  Now liberal education was a somewhat selfish endeavour, as in the only benefit feel upon the obtainer and it had no real output back into society, it was the refining of the brain creating a knowledge in the humanities the arts and science.  the drive was to create a gentleman striving for perfection through using the resources that were available to him.  this pursuit was only to be put into play after the necessaries of life were dealt with, the physical and political needs of a person, and even then a liberal education was not to be truly praised  because it had no real good that was being passed on to anyone besides the student.

              Newman felt it important to keep things where they belonged and not to relate one thing with another if they had nothing to do with one another.  He seemed though to hold a liberal education and mind in high order, and that the way to becoming a perfect gentleman contained many things where a liberal education was not the least.  

Newman Response

Ryan Haidle

English 121

2-5-08

Newman

 

“Knowledge is one thing, virtue is another; good sense is not conscience, refinement is not humility, nor is largeness and justness of view faith.” (Newman 518) This quote from Newman’s writing jumped out at me because even if you’re educated and knowledgeable it still doesn’t mean you have also succeeded in moral excellence. Knowledge can help lead to virtual success, but it takes a different kind of knowledge to be able to have moral success also. Knowledge can be taught in a classroom, and its purpose is not to interfere with religious views; its purpose is to prepare you for life in society. It teaches you how to deal with all different genres of people. You can be taught all the knowledge in the world, but its up to you to convert it to virtue.

Drew Walters

Eng 121

1-4-08

 

            Knowledge need not be for the good of anyone but the individual. There is nothing wrong with an education that entails career training, but it alone does not fulfill what someone should be getting out of an education. When starting college a lot of people suggested that I get a degree that I can use and what they had it mind was a degree in the direction of a career. I always smile and agree with the importance of using your degree, but hopefully more will come of it; hopefully my degree satisfies more of my personal needs than societies. This is where my enjoyment for knowledge begins and ends. It is crucial to benefit, connect with, and pertain to the needs of the individual in order to maintain an interest in knowledge.

Response #3…Newman..hope I’m on the right track!

Mary Alice Dewees

Writing 121

Ariana Paliobagis

1. What are some of the practical applications of different kinds of knowledge? Is Newman correct in saying that knowledge need not serve any “useful” said purpose to be worth acquiring?  Why or why not?

       In the excerpt “Knowledge Its Own End”, Newman discusses the two basic types of knowledge, “useful knowledge” and “liberal knowledge”.  While I agree with Newman on the basis that knowledge does not have to have a said purpose, it cannot be denied that “liberal knowledge” can also apply to one’s daily life in a practical way.  Granted, it is “useful knowledge” that teaches mankind how to get by in the world. For instance, one learns how to perform specific jobs, to operate vehicles, and abide the law; but I believe “liberal knowledge” is what makes people who they are.  I consider “liberal knowledge” to be the education one chooses to take part in. It is an aspect of life that makes people “useful” in their society.  Personally, I cannot recall ever meeting someone who could be trained in a particular field but have little else to contribute to their community. In my opinion, it is impossible to ignore that all knowledge is “useful” whether or not it serves any purpose.

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Newman Posting Assignment due 2/6 by 8am

Posting assignment due Wednesday 6 February by 8am.

This post should be a casual response to Newman, working to connect it with the other ideas and texts we have discussed.  A thoughtful and probing response should take at least 5 interesting sentences to accomplish.  You do not have to bring a paper copy to class, but you might find it helpful in reminding you of your thoughts in order to meaningfully contribute to class discussion.

 

Please choose one of the following sets of questions to focus your response.  I will also accept responses which do not answer any of these specifically but which do carefully engage Newman’s text and ideas.  If you choose to write sans prompt, find another way to focus your writing so that it does not try to deal with this whole text in one paragraph and so that it expresses a useful understanding of these ideas.  Do not summarize.

 

1.  What are some of the practical applications of different kinds of knowledge?  Is Newman correct in saying that knowledge need not serve any “useful” social purpose to be worth acquiring?  Why or why not?

 

2.  In Newman’s opinion, what role does enjoyment play in the motivation to acquire knowledge?  In your opinion, is learning most enjoyable for its own sake or for its use value?  Explain your answer.

 

3.  Compare Newman’s view of education with Rousseau’s.  In what ways does Rousseau mirror Newman’s contention that education does not need to be useful?

 

4.  Compare Douglass’s experience of education himself with Newman’s understanding of “liberal education.”  How well does Douglass’s learning correspond to the kind of education that Newman advocates?  How “useful” to Douglass are the things he learns?

 

5.  Select a short passage from Newman’s piece and respond specifically to that passage.  Please copy the passage as the first part of your response so that your readers can immediately see what you are responding to.